hey there fellow Travelers welcome to the Tolkien Road episode 3 45. in this episode we're continuing our journey through the fall of numenor by exploring the chapter 1200 Sauron Endeavors to seduce the Eldar before we get started I'd like to give a double up air 5 to our amazing Fellowship stick em up Fellowship three two one whoops very nice special thanks to this episode's executive producers John R Caitlin of t with Tolkien Jacob blockham John H melchor27 and kg also a shout out to those celebrating their Fellowship anniversary in August of 2023 and E Garrett P Mario G Matt R Ben D Lauren H will Henry B Jonathan L Austin B and Carol W thank you all so much for sticking with us over the years join The Fellowship of the Road by visiting patreon.com Tolkien Road when you join The Fellowship of the road it helps us to keep on evering on and lend you some cool perks along the way learn more at patreon.com Tolkien Road if you're watching hit that like button don't forget to subscribe and let us know what's on your mind in the comments below thank you for hitting that like button boom finally attention binge listeners subscribe rate and review us on iTunes or the platform of your choice if you are a five star fan of the Tolkien road you can really help us out by heading over to iTunes or your preferred source for the show and dropping us a rating and review when you do that it helps get the word out about the Tolkien road which helps us to keep on evering on you know it by now all right in this chapter we find rumors of Sauron beginning to unveil his plot in fact it's even debatable what sauron's exact plot is at this point we'll maybe talk about that some and we'll learn more about how it develops over the course of the next several chapters the original source for this chapter is primarily two sources the history of Middle Earth part 12 the peoples of Middle Earth as well as unfinished Tales all right so year 1200 we are 1200 years into the second age um the full title of the title of this chapter is actually much longer than what I said at the beginning it's quite a mouthful but it really lays out the four key things that we want to consider here first Sauron Endeavors to seduce the Eldar so Sauron is not attacking the Eldar he is attempting to seduce them he's attempting to bring them over to his side get him to cooperate get them to cooperate with him next we learn that gilgallad refuses to treat with him we'll talk a little bit more about that in just a moment but gilgalod he doesn't trust this fella whoever he is The Smiths of Aragon are won over so the Smiths of region these are the elf the elf Smiths that are uh that are working in this area of Aragon take a quick look at that on the old map right here so region is the region here um is the region here to the west of the Misty Mountains so if you kind of think of the Misty Mountains on our map of Middle Earth as being the spine that runs down the center of the map here this the spine of mountains that run down to the center of the map here well region is this region in here which is just outside of Moria and this is where many of the elves uh are dwelling in the second age and many of the elves that are that are very creative right that are Smith's and then Lastly lastly we learned the numenoreans begin to make permanent Havens we'll talk a little bit more about that in just a moment as we talk about Taran kalime who is in the 125th year of her Reign we talked a bit about Taran kalime in the last episode made the first ruling queen of numenor but she comes from a situation of familial Strife you'll recall we spent a good deal of time on the story of her father tar aldarion and uh and her mother erindus and their marriage which was not a happy one right it should have been happy it could have been happy they were very apparently fond of each other at the beginning but because of uh their different predilections if you will uh aldarian was drawn to the Sea and orindus hated the sea and this really pulled him apart and caused a lot of strife in their marriage and on Kali Mae really suffered a lot from that and she grew up apparently bitter and became a bitter ruling Monarch the first queen and also a bitter Queen she but we learned she has neglected the policies of her father with respect to Middle Earth and at first I was going to call this an isolationist stance because you know it says that basically what what it means by that is that she turned her back on this alliance with gilgallad and the elves have leaned on and really didn't respect it didn't attend to it and um but really it's not isolationist it's not so much isolationist as it is unilateral because we learned that during this time period the new minorians began to make permanent Havens in Middle Earth so they made their own permanent Havens in different parts of Middle Earth so that's not necessarily the same thing as isolationism that's more like Hey we're not going to work in these alliances we're going to do kind of we're going to do things essentially our own way we're going to do it you know all on our own um you know this is again in the real world to when a country you know a country were to say like oh we need to uh you know pursue this foreign policy goal maybe you know we need to uh you know fight this war and we're going to do it with by ourselves instead of saying like well we're going to get this big Alliance together all right so that would be multilateralism so unilateral foreign policy that's really what numenor seems to be pursuing at this point you know just the fact that numenor um and I think let me say this I think this is a you know this is a portent of bad things to come because at least before when they were getting involved in Middle Earth again it was to help the other free peoples of Middle Earth it was to essentially use their position in the world being this really uh island nation that wasn't under threat from anyone else uh in any kind of direct fashion it was saying like hey maybe we should use uh you know we maybe we should help the others right maybe we shouldn't just kind of keep to ourselves all the time but maybe we should go out of our way to help the others you know we can debate whether that was a good idea or not but you know we know that something is going on that's bad in Middle Earth and we know that um if we go back to Tarman Eldor he resigned earlier than he was planning to because he knew his son tar he knew his son aldarayan who became Taral Darian was more of the mindset and more equipped more experience to be able to handle whatever this growing threat was in Middle Earth but um but yeah unfortunately uh unfortunately that doesn't happen it becomes this sort of like well we'll do our own thing in Middle Earth and we'll establish these permanent Havens and what's the point of those permanent Havens well could it be anything but their own the enrichment of numenor right the the power of numenor and you know furthermore they're permanent right they're not these like you know places that are set up for a specific purpose and only last a certain time but they become permanent locations which means that they can potentially expand to Greater locate to Greater locations and they are going to be uh seen as their own centers of power eventually as well so just an interesting development in this you know one small little statement right here regarding permanent Havens all right so um we've also learned there's this curious statement here no rumor of this portent reached the distant North so I was curious about you know the and and what this is in reference to is the coming of the numenoreans in the year 600 you know which is of course 600 years ago at this point but it's mentioned in this chapter and it says no rumor of this portent the arrival of the numenoreans is reach the distance north so I was like well who are we talking about in the distance north so I looked up this reference in volume 12 of the P of the history of Middle Earth the people's of Middle Earth and this reference to the distance north has to do with the source of this passage the chapter titled of dwarves and Men which goes into much more detail about the long relationship of these two people groups it's kind of insignificant outside the original context which is interesting and it's very worth reading if you're super into dwarves actually it's worth reading just if you're into the whole uh you know the into the legendarium itself if you're the kind of person that wants to read these kind of interesting little tidbits that Tolkien through here and there it's actually a fairly long essay and it goes into a lot of really interesting things about the history of this particular time period but I won't go into any of that here I'll just say that that reference has a specific reference within the chapter that you might find interesting if you want to look it up so that's why it says the no none of this news reached the distant North and it kind of seems out of place right here all right so Sauron we learned that Sauron has a presents himself in this kind of uh Fair form and he endeavored to win the friendship and Trust of the Eldar so why is he so interested in in winning the friendship and Trust of the Eldar well you know I think it has to do with the fact that the Eldar are still really the most powerful of all of the peoples even though they maybe are a little bit diminished at this point um he knows that the Eldar you know when it all comes down to it are going to be the ones that when they finally kind of wake up to what he's doing um will be uh you know we'll be the most equipped to push back on him and so he wants to win their friendship right he wants to bring them as close as possible uh so that uh so that they won't think to resist him right and by the time they would realize they need to resist him it would almost be too late and slowly he reverted again to the allegiance of morgoth and I found this really interesting because was is this indicating that Sauron was truly repentant at first you know there is some discussion about that at the beginning of the second age you know if we read out calabath I believe it makes reference to that possibility that some held that he was truly repentant at first but he didn't take the action he needed to take you know I believe we covered that in uh several episodes ago but he didn't take the action of actually going back to um back to Amman right back to the Blessed realm and kind of seeking the pardon of the Valar instead he stayed here in Middle Earth and he lingered and eventually he got back to his own designs um but uh you know it also says he reverted again to the allegiance of morgoth so in a way Sauron is not simply acting on his own in the second age he does see himself as being an ally of morgoth who you know we might think how is morgoth even at work in the world interesting things will happen later in the history of the second age that might indicate to us that though morgoth is not present in the world in any kind of bodily fashion in any kind of visible fashion uh he is still an actor and he is still someone that Sauron looks to uh remember more goth in the end is a spirit right he is a spirit that embody that becomes embodied for the better part of the early history of Middle Earth but at this point he is banished beyond the walls of the world right so it's possible that Sauron was truly repentant at first but he is uh eventually reverts back to the allegiance of morgoth um men apparently are the easiest of peoples for Sauron to sway now why is that why would men be the easiest for Sauron to sway well I think we can you know simply kind of get to the idea that men because of their short lifespan with comparison to the Eldar and to the dwarves um men are the most willing to make deals right to kind of make the deal with the devil um because they know that their days are numbered they know that their days are Swift are coming to an end quickly and you know it's interesting when we think about that context because in a way the gift of long life that was given to the numenoreans we may be able to see that as a way to make them strong to resist the Temptations of evil right um but especially for the men that remained in Middle Earth who do not have the longer life spans it's easier to sway them to the Deeds of Darkness to doing the Deeds of evil because you can say what if I reward you with long life right what if I what if I reward you what if I make it to the death you can even beat Death you can live forever you can be immortal like the elves right so that's not laid out directly here but that's why I would surmise that men are the easiest to sway I mean there's all kinds of other reasons we can lift because you know we can list because we're all we're all men who are all of the race of men so we can understand the different kinds of things that we are prone to but uh you know I would say it all kind of ties back to the shortness of our lifespans um you know especially when men would look out and they'd see like elves and dwarves living much longer than them and he labor is hard to persuade the elves meaning Sauron labor is hard to persuade the elves again I think we talked about this already but you know the elves they are really the they're they're really still in charge right they're still in charge we're not quite to the to the time when men are truly uh you know it's truly the age of men just yet except for a numenor numenor is kind of this one little exception but the elves are really the ones who still hold the power you know they don't they don't really wield it like we might think of you know in these terms of these great Empires but they have these little you know havens of Elvish civilization um that are you know really the the great locations the great uh little kingdoms of um of goodness of freedom of power of civilization in this time and so he wants to get the the elves on his side again because if he can get them on his side then he can do whatever he wants right he can eventually do whatever he wants

um now I found this note also very interesting that his Hue sauron's Hue was still that of one both fair and wise so Sauron does not appear as he does in the uh you know films as the dark lord right you know like kind of how we might think of like this like sort of like very frightening demonic presence uh but he appears both fair and wise you know uh Christopher Tolkien it actually in the footnote of this it actually says the Christopher Tolkien said that in this time he appeared more like the later estari it was almost like a you know a foreshadowing of the astari which was interesting to me because it got me thinking about like okay you know did he appear then more like you know kind of a you know a beautiful old man right so you know kind of like the beauty of wisdom right you know and and I got to thinking about the whole how um how he's presented in the rings of power so spoiler alert pause right there if you haven't seen the rings of power I don't want to spoil it for you uh but uh I'm going to talk about the great you know some of the big revelations in uh the first season of the Rings of power so of course the character Hal brand uh halbrand is revealed to be Sauron himself um and Hal brand I don't think he really adds up to uh the presentate to what Christopher says here you know halbrand looks much more like kind of a a young version of Aragorn right he looks he looks like uh you know he looks like he could just be an ancestor of Aragorn right um uh as as we see Aragorn in the in the films played by um uh played by oh gosh I had it on the tip of my tongue too Viggo Mortensen thank you you thought I was going to get it wrong you were wrong all right so Viggo Mortensen he you know he kind of looks he has that Viggo Mortensen Aragorn kind of Look to Him Hal brand in the Rings and power TV show but in the uh book here Christopher Tolkien actually said that he appears more like a later estari so we might think of like you know um maybe and I have a hard time thinking that that Sauron would guide himself like we think of um like we think of Gandalf especially Gandalf the Gray now maybe more like Gandalf the White uh maybe more like uh sauromon like you know with the with the robes the Rope the flowing Robes of white and like you know kind of the the well-kept hair and looking kind of very lordly but beautiful you know that fairness but also he looks perhaps wise right because he's got the the wisdom of age going on so that was that seems to be more what's indicated to me you know it's not a lot to go off of but that seems to be more like how we should have uh perhaps seen uh you know an early Sauron who we didn't know was Sauron presented in the uh in the rings of power so um yeah I just think that the the presenting you know Hall brand as this uh or you know uh hidden Sauron as this like uh you know Viggo Mortensen outer gornish kind of figure was it's not quite what Tolkien and Christopher Tolkien had in mind there all right so why were Gil Gallard and elrond wise to him it says they didn't actually realize who this was they didn't realize he was Sauron but you know all I can think is that he was a little too slick right uh gilgalod and elrond you know they probably had a decent enough spidey sense about uh the Agents of evil and how they like to operate and they could probably pick up on it fairly quickly uh but they didn't they did not know for sure it was Sauron I don't even know that they they had like a strong hunch that it was uh but my guess is he just operated a little with just a little too much slickness right you know these these uh great Elvish Lords they have a way of picking up on these things they've been around the block a few times they know how it works they know how the world Works um and some of us can probably understand there are some of us in the world that have a better sort of spidey sense about these things you know this who are the smooth operators you know the uh the the the the Slick Willies of the world right the people who are a little too uh uh you know a little a little too um just good at everything you know like they got the right answer for everything a little too sales many right you know we we kind of all understand that uh that that mode of operation all right so um let's talk a little bit about the rulers that follow uh uh uh tar on Kali Mae so tar uh the next ruler is taranarian the taranarian is the son of Taran kalime his Reign begins in the year second age 1280 and he is 277 years old at his a session um he had two daughters who refused the scepter so his youngest child and only son sorian becomes king after him so remember at this point the law had been changed so that the eldest daughter could uh could receive the scepter I talked a little bit about my confusion about this this fact last time so I won't go into that too much here but there is sort of some confusion about how those laws of succession might have worked in numenor around the statement here so nevertheless story on um the youngest child of anarian becomes the king and Tara narian rules until 1394 dies 10 years later at the age of 401 and then tar suryan his Reign begins in second age 1394. uh he is 220 years old at a session and he has two children talparian a daughter and a silamo a son and tell perion talparian Will Go On to be the second ruling Queen more about her probably in the next episode ruled until 1556 dies 18 years later at the age of 400. and as far as our images go in this chapter I gotta be honest I'm not really sure what we're looking at here my best guess was this is Sauron treating with the elves or perhaps men um but to be honest that's just the best guess I'm not I don't have any degree of confidence about me being right on that if you have a clearer idea please feel free to mention it in the comments below all right so what are the key takeaways from this brief chapter I'd note two things especially first Sauron is acting but not aggressively at this point he seems to be content with gaining ground by seduction and influence if possible not everything has to be a clear Act of war with Sauron second the familial strife and numenor's monarchy is leading it down a very dangerous path not only are they failing their friends the elves of Lindon but they are actively pursuing their own interests and other locales numenor has changed next time we'll learn about the forging of the Rings of power as well as the reign of numenor's second Queen as always keep the correspondence coming we'll do our best to respond to you somehow and at some point and don't forget to stop by trumithspress.com for great merch like super styling and comfy Tolkien Road t-shirts like you see here mine's getting a little worn out I'm gonna have to get myself a new one here soon the two trees camper mugs and signed copies of my books once again that's true mythspress.com it will take you to our all-new Etsy store thank you for supporting our work with your 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